marx_lincoln Lately I been kind of keeping tabs on what’s goin’ on in politics. I’ve been staggered by the enormous amount of money our government spends. The thing is, this is our money that they are spending… they are creating something way too big to pay for and are spending our money to feed the beast. Now, I’ve never been especially political. I vote and all; but I never get too involved in things outside of the voting process. Basically I help put ’em in office (or not) and let them do what we hire them to do. But… as I said, lately I’ve been checkin’ things out. It’s simple common sense: if you make something so much bigger than you have money for you need to either make it smaller and managable, or you raise taxes. I was talking to a good friend of mine who makes some pretty good money. Now, he’s not abnormally rich by any means, he just makes a decent living. He did a little research and found out if all the new taxes proposed go through he’ll be paying out 78% of his income. Something’s happening here… something’s not right…

I got this picture off this guy’s blog called the red mantis. It’s not every day you google something (a picture of marx and lincoln) and get the exact thing you googled for. Anyway, my father-in-law Dave puts out a news letter every week called Things Worth Saving and I found this quote in this weeks addition.

“You cannot help the poor by destroying the rich. You cannot strengthen the weak by weakening the strong. You cannot bring about prosperity by discouraging thrift. You cannot lift the wage earner up by pulling the wage payer down. You cannot further the brotherhood of man by inciting class hatred. You cannot build character and courage by taking away people’s initiative and independence. You cannot help people permanently by doing for them, what they could and should do for themselves.” ~Abraham Lincoln

Peace,hope and love.



Filed under random, Uncategorized

28 responses to “Socialized

  1. kyleboot

    Mr. Lincoln was smart man. Smarter than most.

  2. well for starters he weakened the strong and strengthened the weak…

    • Mmmmm, no, I think in regards to economics Jesus would say “the worker is worthy of his wage”. However, workers can only get their wage when there is someone who pays the wage (which was Lincoln’s point).

      Capitalism is the closest thing to a godly system history has produced. But it, like all good things (marriage, family etc) can be distorted to produce evil.

      That doesn’t mean we do away with the whole system; rather, we fix the system. The trend lately is to find a flaw in a system and to throw out the entire system, replacing it with something worse (i.e. communism for capitalism).

      • We might have to agree to disagree on this one. I totally think that the American Christian has it all wrong.

        God is worthy of our wage… we are not. Do you think that porn stars should make more than missionaries?

        I agreed with what you said in another post about God taking care of us. But I don’t think that he necessarily takes care of us how we want or expect him to.

        He wants us to be like Jesus (doxological). I’m not saying that he doesn’t want us to prosper… I just think he doesn’t really care.

      • Why is capitalism the closest thing to a godly government? Wouldn’t a government in which all work together for the good of all be better? A land where there are no poor? Everybody piles together what they have so that everybody goes without need. These governmets existed, but like you said good things can be distorted to produce evil.

    • By the way, I meant to ask you where read that Jesus “weakened the strong and strengthened the weak”?

  3. I was quoting 1st Tim 5:18 which does say “the worker is worthy of his wage.”

    Do you disagree with Lincoln’s assertion that “cannot lift the wage earner up by pulling the wage payer down”?

  4. that verse is talking about taking care of our pastors and missionaries… who do not work for us, but we support.

    He is not talking about the economics of the land. I don’t think that Jesus talked politics…

    I don’t know what I think about that last quote…

    • You’re right about the context of that passage; but, Paul was quoting the levitical law (most versions site Deut 25, lev 19:13 Deut 24:14,15). This law (and Lincoln’s quote) refer to a fundamental innate principle: a worker should get paid for his/her work.

      And, if the guy that pays the worker has no money to pay him… well, he can’t give the work and then everybody gets the ol’ screwby. Hence Lincoln’s quote.

    • the passage is also talking about excepting blessings from people… but not about expecting payment for something.

      • I disagree. The ox treads out the grain and gets fed as a reward for its work. We are not all called to be, as they say, “in ministry”.

      • coletteashley

        really, for one nathan, being christian and spreading the word is something we all should be doing therefore we are all called to be in ministry. and two, the bible may say that the employer should pay the worker, but unless you are a believer, why would you have to live by biblical principles? i think these passages are being taken way out of context imo. they are not talking about being provided for.

      • I believe it is talking to the employer not the employee…

  5. If Jesus would approve of capitalism, which is based really on greed, and he wants us to proper like America supports, why did he tell people to sell/drop all they had and follow him? That seems a little contrary to capitalism…

    • Well I have to say that capitalism, like communism, does look good on paper. I think commune living is awesome (because I’ve done it), but if somebody gets greedy or jealous the whole thing is blown to bits.

      is this what you’re talking about? “it’s easier for a camel to enter the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the gates of heaven.”

    • Capitalism is not based on greed. Greed is the distortion of the good.

      Jesus told that to one person. And in that particular case Jesus knew that the young man’s love of his possesions were what was in between him and God.

      • coletteashley

        Jesus told more than one person to leave everything they have to follow him. you’re right that he did tell that to that one person for that reason, but he also told other people to simply follow him, which constituted dropping everything they had and going with him (like the disciples, which is why i said sell/drop, to let the reader fill in whatever would be sufficient for them to understand my point). socialism actually looks quite godly on paper as well, but given there is sin in the world and distortion in everything (greed being the one for capitalism, among other things) capitalism is not godly. not sure how you can say that a system that encourages getting all you can work for and leaving the poor behind isn’t based on greed when put into action. or how you can say god would approve of that.

  6. I don’t think that your post was off-base for America and that mindset. But I also appreciate Brittney bringing it back to what Jesus would see as right. We are not a Christian nation, just a nation with Christians in it. Perhaps we should challenge what America is standing for. Although going with it certainly is easier…

    • Dude! A Christian who actually agrees that America is not a Christian nation… We need to hang out more

    • I agree that America is not a Christian nation as such. But it was based on Christian principles such as fairness, which is the root of capitalism.

      • coletteashley

        fairness is a christian principle? wow, i sure hope not, because it sure wasn’t fair that jesus was killed for my/your sin…

        and american capitalism sure doesn’t look fair either.

        that line, that america was based on christian principles, that i hear so often, makes me laugh. sorry, but it does. i feel it is just trying to justify why america is god’s nation and why what we are doing in america is so much more godly when we couldn’t be more corrupt.

      • I’m pretty sure that non-christians would have something to say about this statement as well…

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